Roofing Insights Podcast

Evolve Exposed: "Never Had One Job Built" | Ken Koch

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0:00 | 50:42

Dmitry talks to former Sales Rep Ken Koch about what's really going on at Evolve Construction and the investigations against them. 

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Insights

0:00:01 Starting in the roofing industry in 2005
0:01:45 Working with billionaire LC Nasdaq and Aspen Contracting
0:03:15 Generating $19.5 million in sales in just 45 days
0:03:55 Surviving a 10,000-pound truck running over his head
0:04:34 Dying seven times and experiencing the "other side"
0:04:54 A three-hour conversation with Jesus about life's purpose
0:08:28 Spiritual revelations and 77 missing books of the Bible
0:10:12 Analyzing the "10,000ft view" of industry profitability
0:13:46 Facing a lawsuit from Evolve Construction with 21 others
0:15:07 Concerns over 35% cancellation fees and nationwide sales calls
0:18:09 Investigating industry fraud with the FBI in Omaha
0:21:20 Exposing unethical business models and forged documents
0:25:35 Estimates of thousands of canceled roofing contracts
0:37:15 Claims of company payroll being handled via Cash App
0:43:09 The multi-billion dollar impact of theft on middle-class Americans
0:50:00 Final message: Choosing love and compassion over "dirty" business
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SPEAKER_02

So you sold$45 million of commercial jobs and residential. And they're not being built. I never signed a customer completion form or submitted a customer completion form. I never made it that far because I never had one job that had materials delivered to it.

SPEAKER_01

That's better business model than doing any work. I've never ever worked for a company that was that dirty ever in my life.

SPEAKER_02

No, that's one thing I don't do is I I don't lie. I never lie. There's no reason for it. I had an accident in 2022. I had a 10,000-pound truck run over my head. But I remember being on the other side. I spent about three hours sitting down talking to Jesus.

SPEAKER_01

You have three hour podcasts with Jesus, and I want to talk to you for three hours.

SPEAKER_02

I left a couple of bear traps out there for a vault. On purpose.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. And uh they're gonna fall into uh Ken is in a studio. He drove where you drove from? I drove from Omaha. Omaha, not far. Um, just to meet in person, I always prefer in-person interview podcast versus Zoom. Always better connection. Absolutely. I just want to get to know you, brother, your story, uh uh how you got in the industry, of course. So you're OG in this industry. How long have you been in the industry? Let's start there.

SPEAKER_02

I started in 2005. And I started with a stupid company in Indianapolis, Indiana. And then in 2006, I started working with LC Nuzback for Aspen Contract.

SPEAKER_01

LC is probably one of the most impressive people I've met in this industry.

SPEAKER_02

He's incredible. He's a billionaire now.

SPEAKER_01

Billionaire?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Is it Matt Sky?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, well, I helped him with Matsky too. Matskay made him billionaire? Between between Aspen contracting and then he sold it to his brother Pat, and that's when I left Aspen. Um not gonna get into that. Sure. Um but but I did get a So you worked for LC.

SPEAKER_01

Who else did you work for? Famous people? Um back in the day, like 2006, 2007.

SPEAKER_02

Those are golden years since chasing all aspen. And every single year, I mean, it hit anywhere from two million to five million dollars every summer. And back then it was different. It was a lot different. But everything I did was hand-knocked, hand tape measured. There was no such thing as Eagle View. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01

Measured absolutely every how much did you make in commissions over two to five million?

SPEAKER_02

Um on two million, close to like a million eight, I'd make five hundred thousand.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

Good for you.

SPEAKER_01

So you work for Apex. Who else do you work for?

SPEAKER_02

Well, Aspen. I worked for Aspen. Aspen, Aspen, Aspen, my bad. And then I worked for Mad Sky. I worked for Mad Sky when he had Mad Sky before he sold it. I worked for Cardinal Exteriors. Um I had my own company, Bad Weather Enterprises and Enterprise. Um in 2019 we had close to 19.5 million dollars worth of sales in 45 days, and a lot of that was me. So I've had a pretty illustrious career. Um, every insurance company in the country knows my name.

SPEAKER_01

I I would think so. They do. So now let's talk about this company. I pulled this website just for the reference. Oh my gosh. So this is the last company you work for. I want to hear your experience. What's wrong with this company? Uh or what went wrong for you. Because well like how how did you start with A Wolf?

SPEAKER_02

Well, I had an accident in 2022. I had a 10,000-pound truck run over my head. It crushed every bone in my skull, blew my left eyeball out of the socket, I caught it and shoved it back in. It shattered my spine down to the middle of my back, broke my lower jaw in three places, um, blew both my eardrums out. I drowned in my own blood. I died seven times on the way to the hospital.

SPEAKER_01

Like your your heart was stopping?

SPEAKER_02

Like well, I drowned in my own blood. The spinal fluid, my brain sac broke from the pressure from the 10,000-pound truck. So I died seven times on the way to the hospital. The doctor was able to save my life, bring me back. But I remember being on the other side. That's incredible. Everything.

SPEAKER_01

So you you were dead?

SPEAKER_02

I was yeah, I died seven times. I was I was literally flatline dead. Okay, what do you mean other side? Like other side of life.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Uh I want to hear that experience. How long? How many minutes?

SPEAKER_02

Um, I spent about three hours sitting down talking to Jesus.

SPEAKER_01

Is that how they like I I've heard so many stories. Like, did you see yourself from the app?

SPEAKER_02

No, um, I walked through a little hallway and what what they describe in the Bible as um uh what do they call it? His perpetual light. I walked through his perpetual light, and when I walked out the other side, I was stark naked, and everything I'd ever done wrong in my entire life was like pinned to my body. And I was naked in front of Jesus with everything I had ever done wrong in my entire life. And I thought that I never I didn't have the power to to make it, you know, to heaven. You know what I mean? And I fell to my knees and I was crying, and Jesus picked me up by the shoulders and he says, I love you like I love all my children. He says, I forgive you. And we sat there and we talked about so many things for like three hours in in depth about life. Do you remember that? I remember absolutely everything. Is there anything you asked him? Uh a lot of things. What did you ask him about? Like what what was life's purpose? What was the most important thing that we were supposed to do in life? You know what I mean? And it's to help each other. And that's realistically, it boils down to the Ten Commandments and how we show love and compassion to one another. And um what he told me while I was on the other side is that he he wanted me to come back and share my story. Maybe that's why I'm here today. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

I'll take it. So he has you have three-hour podcasts with Jesus, and uh I want to talk to you for three hours. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_02

Uh no, I actually while I was sitting there talking to him, I could see my legs becoming transparent. I saw my soul depart from my body, it was ready to transcend. Did you see yourself, your body from the outside? Yes, my body was on the table, and I walked away from it down this hallway. Then I walked through the perpetual light, and that's when I stood naked in front of Jesus.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I have I don't even want to talk about evolved construction anymore. I want to talk about that experience.

SPEAKER_02

And I talked to another man that went through an identical experience. Now, how often do you hear people that have died and come back to life? You know what I mean, but have had the identical experience. Yeah. There was a a guy from Texas, a young gentleman from Texas, that had the identical experience, verbatim word for word that I had. And Jesus sent him back to share his story.

SPEAKER_01

What else, what, what else did you feel? Or um Um all of my anxiety? More highlights.

SPEAKER_02

All of my anxiety, all my stress, all the earthly worries, possessions, like, you know, making money, you know what I mean? This you know, gone. You know what I mean? All of a sudden you feel free. You know what I mean? And then you're just overpowered by this unconditional love that that God disgraces upon you, and you're in the presence of the Lord. And I was humbled, so humbled. And it broke me, you know, and I just sat there and I talked to Jesus. You know what I mean? And he told me that he forgave me and that he loved me. And he wanted me to come back and share my story.

SPEAKER_01

Anything else you asked him, did he remember he answered?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I talked to him about the Bible, about missing verses from the Bible, why why they were missing. Which one? He a lot of them. He said there was close to seventy-seven books missing from the Bible. Like Book of Enoch and Yeah, uh he didn't give me the exact names. Yeah. But he said there was close to 77 books missing from the Bible.

SPEAKER_01

There's only 66 books in the Bible, so there's more missing than correct, almost half. Okay.

SPEAKER_02

Missing still. So um the understanding that and the other thing that I remember is that all of the different religions in the world are pretty much irrelevant. They all come together. They have a one common belief, one creator. And like some people believe in um coming back as, you know what I mean, a bird or whatever, but that's not the case. You know what I mean? The only way to heaven is through Jesus. And it explains that in the Bible. So as long as we follow the Ten Commandments and we share love and compassion in our life through everything that we do, nothing else really matters.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's gonna be very hard to transition to the dark side of our industry after that, but uh now I have even more questions.

SPEAKER_02

So if you take that into consideration and you take a the you take the 10,000-foot view of our industry, okay? And I've been a business owner, and I still own businesses. So from the 10,000-foot view of the end uh uh the industry, every owner wants to make as much money as they can. Bottom line. It comes down to the bottom line. Can they afford to stay in business? Are they being profitable? You know what I mean? What is the market doing? How much are they paying for materials? How much are they paying for labor? How much are they paying in commissions? You know what I mean? But the house always wins. And that's the way they always have their commission structure set up. Right? The house always wins.

SPEAKER_01

It's like it's like a casino. Right? Well, you have to be profitable. But I would push back on it because I don't think like here's my position. Let's say you hire you have ten employees. I have employees in this room. If I don't have enough money to pay the payroll, what are you supposed to do? I'm gonna go sell my car. I'm gonna go take a loan. Um, you know, house wins, but house can also lose. As a business owner, you also take a risk. And you do, that's entrepreneurship is insurance.

SPEAKER_02

That's why they carry insurance. Okay, or that's why they they set up on a under a different company and pay other companies, you know, for sales.

SPEAKER_01

Well, you're talking about majority practices of roofing industry now. Because in the roofing industry, and you're in a sales rep, and let's start there. So in the roofing industry, I never understood, like, I've been in the roofing business for seven years. You will not find one sales rep, whoever worked for me, whoever have dispute. Like, not um besides the point, like going over commissions, and it's like, hey, this job was last, or curve, you know, correction. Every once in a while we'll correct a few things to be reasonable, but I never have disputes with commission. When I hear, you know, sales rep selling million dollars a year and not getting paid. I'm like, what did you do with the money? Someone brings you a million dollars. You're right, but some salesman, okay.

SPEAKER_02

It depends upon the training that that salesman receives and who they receive it from, because that's how they're going to absorb it, correct? So if they're not trained properly, okay, they can go sell a million dollars worth of business and lose money on every single job.

SPEAKER_01

If they are uh irresponsible for production. Because if you treat salesperson as a mini company, yes, but in my opinion, sales guys should sell and companies should take care of production. Well, it's not their responsibility.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, when I work for Aspen, we have what they call a job turn-in sheet. Okay, and the job turn-in sheet told you what you were getting per linear foot for gutters, what you were getting per square for shingles, and if you didn't meet the minimums, you couldn't turn the job in. A lot of companies don't do that. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

But if it's insurance claims, that's even easier because everything is predetermined, right? No, a lot of adjusters leave things out accidentally.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

But is it a sales rep's job to fight for it, to supplement, to hire a public adjuster or it's a sales rep to identify what the adjuster accidentally missed, document it, and send it in the proper supplement.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Well, let's talk about it. So I have lawsuit here. I think your name is is your name on it? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I see. Can it call yeah? So this lawsuit, and this is just disclaimer that we are just sharing stories. We're not calling everybody names or bad guys, we're just sharing stories. So this company suing 22 people, and you are one of them. Let me understand what actually happened here.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so I worked for this company for roughly 45 days. 45 days. That's it. 45 days. I was in Ohio and Omaha and Fremont, Nebraska. And how did you get to them?

SPEAKER_01

How did they recruit you?

SPEAKER_02

Um, my friend, my friend Sean Hilliard actually said, Hey, go work for this company. They're up and growing, they have a lot of money. You know what I mean? They'll take care of you. This is the deal. I said, Okay, I'll give it a shot. So I got a recommendation from a good friend of mine that didn't do his homework.

SPEAKER_01

I see.

SPEAKER_02

Actually Do they have a lot of money? From what I've heard, when you steal a lot of money, then you have a lot of money stacked somewhere. I see. Um, but from what I've heard from the homeowners that I had signed contracts with, is most all of them have been sued by either Bulldog or by Evolve.

SPEAKER_01

What are they suing them for? Um for the cancellation fees. So this company, and this is what I've heard, charges 35% cancellation fee. Is that accurate?

SPEAKER_02

Correct. And on the conference calls, when like on Monday, every every Monday we would have everybody from the country, and there'd be almost 300 salespeople on a conference call.

SPEAKER_01

300.

SPEAKER_02

300. That's a lot of salespeople. So they have they have sales going on in North Carolina, South Carolina, Florida, Arkansas, Wisconsin, Ohio, Iowa, Nebraska, California, and Colorado, a whole bunch of other states in between, right? So there's like 300 guys on this conference call. So if you can imagine 300 guys picking up first checks on claims across the country, and then I'd be in touch with the production manager saying, hey, when are the materials coming? And the materials never came, never came, never came, never came. And I had a partner at the time because I had a severe brain injury and I had a 10,000-pound truck run over my head to help me understand certain things, right? So that I wouldn't be making mistakes. And he was like, dude, they're not building the jobs. That's that's what he said. How many j how many jobs have you sold? Um, I didn't bring my folder in with me. But roughly. Roughly 35.

SPEAKER_01

So you sold 35 jobs they're not being being built. Between four and five million dollars. Four to five. What kind of jobs? All commercial. All commercial? No, there was there were some residential in there too. So you sold four to five million dollars of commercial jobs. And residential. And a residential thirty-five jobs, and they're not being built.

SPEAKER_02

From what I've heard from every single homeowner, I had homeowners blowing my phone up to the point where I had to block them.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

I gave them the information to the company, told them to call the company, and I was no longer involved, and I couldn't talk to them because they sent me this text that I couldn't I couldn't talk to any of the homeowners. From AI, you know, a cease and desist from famous uh cease and disease by Chat GPT.

SPEAKER_01

I've received 15 of those.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. So I got a Chat GPT, AI produced, cease and desist letter. So I I couldn't supposedly talk to any of my homeowners, right? So Go ahead, enjoy it too. My homeowners are are calling me saying, hey, I'm getting sued. I'm like, hire an attorney, you get out of this. And they all they all, to my knowledge so far, have. However, I left a couple of bear traps out there for Evolve on purpose.

SPEAKER_01

Okay.

SPEAKER_02

And uh they're gonna fall into them.

SPEAKER_01

Why did you do why did you warn the homeowners or business owners not to do business with Evolve?

SPEAKER_02

I sat down um after after I had a long talk with Ryan and the FBI, and I made the decision to cancel every single one of the contracts.

SPEAKER_01

And I think FBI entered the chat. Where did FBI came in?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Um that's that's another ruthless little story. Where um I had to sit down with the FBI and Omaha for a little while.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Um So they're investigating the fraud side of it? Oh yes. So what what FBI is looking into?

SPEAKER_02

Um I can't tell you to the extent of what the FBI is doing, because I'm not an FBI agent. Sure. So I can't speak to that.

SPEAKER_01

But they're looking into it. I know that they're informed. Awesome. Uh cancellation fees. So 30 is it 35 percent?

SPEAKER_02

And the the other point that I was getting to about that was while we were on the more Monday morning calls, Jay was like, if the homeowner doesn't like, you know, the 15 percent from bulldog um public adjusters, then I can call the owner and we can slide it down to even two percent. You know what I mean? And what owner of of a construction company has that kind of a poll with a public adjuster unless they have a financial relationship with them.

SPEAKER_01

Well, they're a business partner, but they're not supposed to be.

SPEAKER_02

Correct. That's my assumption. However, I'm not the proof guy. Yeah. Okay, but if an owner of a construction company can call a public adjuster firm and pull that kind of weight, he obviously has some type of financial pull there.

SPEAKER_01

Well, here's what I've seen with the because I've interviewed uh Bulldog public adjuster Vince, and I asked him this question, and I said, Why you are releasing funds if the job is not completed? Because I have a homeowner reached out to me, also veteran, and uh homeowner claimed that he got um, you know, he he said scam file or whatever. He said he only got like$13,000 roof out of the claim, but insurance company issued full payment and the work is not done. It's like how can they release the funds? And the story there was I I asked public adjuster, Bulldog, why did you release the funds or demand the funds? And he said, because we have COC completion of uh a certificate of completion. I said, Can I see it? He's like, No, we cannot share. And then later he said, There's nothing signed by the homeowner. So pretty much evolve, forged document, COC, SOC. Nothing surprises me. So did they forged the document, submitted to public uh to Bulldog, Bulldog submits it to insurance, insurance issues the check. Nothing surprises me.

SPEAKER_02

So you've seen this pattern. I have I never signed a customer completion form or submitted a customer completion form. I never made it that far because I never had one job that had materials delivered to it.

SPEAKER_01

Is it intentional? Is it a business model?

SPEAKER_02

That's their from what I saw, that was their business model is to collect as much money as they could, wait as long as they could to the homeowners were canceling their contracts and wanting their money back so that Evolve could collect that 35%, and then Bulldog Adjusters would, and I watched them change it from five to ten to fifteen percent inside of two weeks. Wow. Inside of two weeks. So if you add that together, that's fifty percent of what the insurance payout is, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01

That's better business model than doing any work. You collect 100%, you return 50%, and you don't have to touch materials or crews. Or salesmen. Or because sales guys also not getting paid. Across the board, I've heard a lot of stories where a lot of people aren't getting paid. So help me make sense of this low. So there's 22 people being sued by evolved. Why are they coming after them after damages now? Why like what are they claiming? Like

SPEAKER_02

I did this while I was still a subcontractor or or employee because I had shirts, I had hats, I had business cards, I had logos on my truck.

SPEAKER_01

You're required to attend meetings.

SPEAKER_02

I was required to attend meetings weekly, mandatory. Okay, and submit payroll requests weekly. Okay. Doesn't that make me an employee? A hundred percent does. Okay. So they were breaking the subcontractor rule versus employee. Okay. So I should file for unemployment.

SPEAKER_01

Right? But but they're suing you. Let them sue me. Uh how much they sue you for?

SPEAKER_02

I have no idea. And honestly, I don't care. Because I'm a hunt I'm a hundred percent disabled veteran. You know what I mean? So I really don't care what they have to say.

SPEAKER_01

You know what I mean? What's the official reason for them to terminate you? When I canceled all of the contracts.

SPEAKER_02

Did you have a power to do it? If I have the power to sign the contract, I also have the power to cancel the contract.

SPEAKER_01

I see. And you're the one who fined those jobs?

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. So none none none of the jobs that I canceled were given to me.

SPEAKER_01

I see. So you door knock or every single one of them. So you found the business. I networked it. You signed it, you turned it into the company, you have seen I met with the adjusters. I met with the advanced. What made you cancel them? What have you seen at Evolve? What pattern or practice you've seen that you did not trust them do the job?

SPEAKER_02

Okay, when you promise materials one week, they don't show up for the next week or the next week. Did Evolve promise you?

SPEAKER_01

Did they tell you we're building within a week? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Oh yeah. Because I had a huge campground. It was like close to a three million dollar claim. Right? And a lot of it was shingles. Just on a two-bedroom house and a two-car garage, I got almost a hundred thousand dollars recovered. Wow. Between windows and roofs, garage doors, stuff like that. And fencing, it was like a hundred thousand dollars just on that one claim. Okay. And they had broke they had holes in their plastic vents as big around, as big as softballs. You know, so water was going in the roof. They came out and did a temporary repair, but materials never came. Never came. And the guy wanted to get going, and he had multiple dairy queens as well. You know what I mean? Commercial properties that I found damage on. A little huge damage. And materials never came. Materials never came, materials never came. The guy kept calling me, say, where are the materials? And he was a good friend of mine.

SPEAKER_01

And and meanwhile, he's probably seeing all the builds around him, all the other contractors doing the work and fixing the jobs. Correct. And he was a good friend of mine, and now he won't talk to me. Of course. You're screwed. You're screwed here.

SPEAKER_02

So so when when Evolves uses my name, and I have a good name in the industry, I've worked very hard to get a good name. I don't know if you looked me up online, but I have a good name and I want to keep it that way. So when people start doing shady stuff, it bothers me. Because that's my reputation, that's my name.

SPEAKER_01

So the number I have heard from other sales reps, because I've spoken to at least five ex sales reps, and we're gonna do podcasts with a lot more tomorrow. But the number I'm hearing from the team, from inside team, uh when I ask question, what are the estimate of how many jobs is canceling? They said over five hundred. That over five hundred jobs go into cancellations. It's far more than that. Thousands?

SPEAKER_02

It's thousands and thousands.

SPEAKER_01

Thousands and thousands. Yeah, probably twenty thousand. Twenty thousand jobs. It's high. And it makes sense because when we investigated Evolve, I've seen in a small county in Florida like 45 liens filed. So when I called Jay on the phone and uh and he's like, oh, it's a small number of cancellation because we're such a big company, I said, Jay, a small amount of cancellation does not result in 45 or 25. I don't remember the the number, I think maybe like 23 liens in one county in Florida alone, and you got kicked out of Michigan, Minnesota.

SPEAKER_02

And if I canceled 35 jobs myself, you did. Wow. Right. So that the the homeowners wouldn't have to pay the cancellation fee for 35%. And that's why Jay is mad at me. That's why my name is on that list. Because as an employee, because that's what I was, an employee, I had the right to cancel the contracts. Twenty minutes later, I was fired. Okay? But I have a witness to everything. And as soon as I canceled all those contracts, Dallas Julian and Jay started blowing my phone up. Okay, and accusing me of all kinds of things. But I have a witness to all of these conversations. And he's a credible witness. He's former military, he owns a gun range in Iowa, and he's the president of a gun club. He's a very credible witness. And he witnessed all these conversations because I put them on speaker phone so that this guy could hear absolutely everything that was going on. And I'm gonna keep his name silent for now. Of course. Um but I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01

What role, like who plays what role? So what role Dallas Julian is playing, what name is Jay Zabra playing? Who really runs the company? Who is the brain of operation?

SPEAKER_02

Well, supposedly it was Jay, and then it was Dallas Julian and Justin took turns at the COO of the company. Um it used to be Justin, and then I think Dallas Julian moved into that position because he had a high number of sales, a little over 20 million. But it was all commercial. But he was hand-fed those leads by a lady from Texas that was used in Riotomy. You know what I mean? To get all of the information for all the commercial properties. Um I'm sure you've heard of that program where it gives you all the cell phone email information for all of the commercial properties. And that's a good program for a lot of other roofing companies to use if they want to do commercial. You know?

SPEAKER_01

Besides Bulldog, anybody else involved in it?

SPEAKER_02

No, I I've never ever worked for a company that was that dirty ever in my life.

SPEAKER_01

And you've been in this industry 20 years. Over 20 years, yeah. Over twenty so w is it like one of the worst companies you work for?

SPEAKER_02

It is the worst company I've ever worked for.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

And that's why my name is on that list. Because I'm willing to stand up for the disabled people, for the handicapped people, for the middle class people, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01

So that let me ask you this. Why like looking out? Yeah, like I've talked to the homeowners, it's horrible. But why salespeople are blind to company pattern? Because salespeople have seen podcasts, they've heard the I mean it's obvious, right? Like why salespeople are not seeing the obvious, not seeing the cancellations, not seeing it's a great question.

SPEAKER_02

And it all comes down to one experience and training. Two two is training. Okay? Who trained them, how were they trained, how long were they trained? And then who trained them? Right? What level of experience did they have? Those are the most important things with any company. That is going to make or break a company from day one. Wouldn't you agree?

SPEAKER_01

Yes, but they have 300 people. But yes, and I've seen bad culture right. So they have 300 people in like a call.

SPEAKER_02

Justin would go out, Justin would go out and teach them hardcore door knocking skills. So they have good leaders within the company. Right. And how to sign, get the signature on the contract. Get the signature on the contract. As long as the damage is there, get on the ladder, take some pictures with your cell phone, text them to the homeowner while while you're still on the roof. When you get down from the roof, fill out the contract in your truck before you walk in the house. You know what I mean? Go over the pictures, let them understand they're gonna have water coming inside their house if it isn't already. You know what I mean? And get the signature on the contract. So Justin would go around and teach hardcore door knocking training all over the United States for Evolve. You know what I mean? And now all these homeowners are losing what 30 they're getting sued and and and and getting sued for the cancellation fees. And a lot of these people don't have the money to fight it.

SPEAKER_01

Lowsuits are expensive. How does he have money to sue everyone? And who is behind the lowsuit? Is it Jay himself or of course. Of course.

SPEAKER_02

No, he can blame it on his sister or or his cousin or whoever he wants to.

SPEAKER_01

Or he can pretend he's his sister. I got a text message from fake sister, little manipulation.

SPEAKER_02

Please take down the video. My nanny did that and I was unaware. I'm sorry. Wow.

SPEAKER_01

Jay, you're not fooling no one. And Jay's sister, if you exist, your brother is embarrassing you.

SPEAKER_02

I'm I'm surprised that uh I I heard he fled the country. Hopefully he's in a non-extraditionary country. You think they'll get him? I know they will. It doesn't matter where he's at. Jay, it's just a matter of time before you get rid of it. From the pattern that I was seeing and understanding is there are billions of dollars. Okay, billions of dollars that have been collected from insurance companies across the country.

SPEAKER_01

But they only have been in business three years.

SPEAKER_02

Doesn't matter. When you have three hundred salespeople out there collecting checks, but they're not building anything, so it doesn't matter. If you have three hundred salespeople out there collecting checks anywhere from thirty to a hundred thousand dollars a week, do the math. Okay? And they're doing that for two years. And they only build a minimal amount. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

I I wonder how do they jobs to build?

SPEAKER_02

What's the interest on the money that's sitting in the bank? I have no idea.

SPEAKER_01

I I don't think there's a build uh I've never seen anything get built, no.

SPEAKER_02

That's what Justin says, that's what other guys Oh, I actually and I I was gonna sign a 50,000 square foot metal warehouse, and yeah, it would have been a multi-million dollar job. And I refused, I told him, you know, what kind of what was going on, and I refused to sign a contract with him for Evolve. Although I had already signed one with his other warehouse and gotten it approved, and it was another commercial metal building, you know what I mean? But then I canceled that contract. He still got sued and then fought it and won.

SPEAKER_01

So he he sued Evolved and won?

SPEAKER_02

No, Bulldog sued him for a cancellation fee.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, Bulldog did?

SPEAKER_02

Oh yeah. So he he fought that and won. And so did the guy that owned the gun range. He got sued, he got sued too. By Bulldog? By Bulldog.

SPEAKER_01

And Bulldog lost? Bulldog lost. Homeowner won. No, homeowner two, bulldog zero.

SPEAKER_02

No, I've I've seen it um from about 10 or 15 of my clients that they've won every single one of the lawsuits.

SPEAKER_01

So Bulldog is doing the same thing? Bulldog is in a bed with them? Correct. Bulldog is in bed with Jay.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, it's illegal as it comes. You know that as a contractor.

SPEAKER_01

No, I've seen it. I mean, I confronted them. Bulldog will not talk to me. I'm gonna publish my phone call with Bulldog later, too. Makes no sense. Like you can tell when people lie into you.

SPEAKER_02

And I gave you the email address for the FBI agent selecting a couple of things.

SPEAKER_01

Well, we're sending them everything. Awesome. Yeah, because we have homeowners reached out, we have our producer Sidney sending them uh homeowners information. That's where I draw the line. You know, you have opportunity to make it right with the homeowner, make it right with the homeowner. Yeah. Instead of you're trying to bully the homeowner, bully the city.

SPEAKER_02

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01

You know what they're coming after me for? What now? For bullying them. Oh, of course. So his lawyer calls my lawyer. Yeah, defamation. It's not defamation if you're not a child. If your client is a bully, he so Jay tells my lawyer that I'm a bully.

SPEAKER_02

If you're telling the truth, as long as you're telling the truth about what you're saying, how are you bullying anyone?

SPEAKER_01

They're trying to get me on a phone call because Jay called me knowing that it's going to be recorded. Did not give me no disclaimers, nothing until end of the call. It's like, by the way, you cannot post it. I'm like, all right, I'll stop recording. It's like I did not give you permission. I'm like, I'm in Minnesota, dude.

SPEAKER_02

You don't need permission.

SPEAKER_01

I don't need no permission.

SPEAKER_02

No, and you can still post it. Oh, I did. Good. Like and good for you. I I was trying to get a hold of you. I messaged you a couple times. Finally, your assistant reached out to me. Awesome. Bless her heart.

SPEAKER_01

So, no, I'm glad you made it here. What advice would you give to salespeople who are still working at Evolve?

SPEAKER_02

Get the proper training. Find the guy in the field that has the most experience. Everybody can learn something from the guy next to them. Okay? But find the guy that has the most knowledge. It's like Tony Robbins has. You know what I mean? If you hang out with six or five millionaires, you're going to be the sixth one. So surround yourself with successful people.

SPEAKER_01

But is it the same when you surround yourself with the bad people in the crooks? It is easy to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_02

You're going to become one of them? You're going to become corrupt. If you hang out with a bunch of drug dealers and druggies, then you're going to become one of them.

SPEAKER_01

It's just a fact. You know what's funny about Evolve? He attracts like a magnet to all the bad players in industry. Shady. Like, and I I mean it like that. Why do you think I got off so quick? I I've seen PAs who I mean his business partner, Alex, you know, he's banned from many.

SPEAKER_02

Who does their payroll over Cash App?

SPEAKER_01

Legitimately. That's what they do? You want to see pictures of it? So the payroll is done over Cash App. You want me to prove it? Okay.

SPEAKER_02

There I'll prove it.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I think he has does it doesn't he ask his sister? Who does their uh their notary is in the family?

SPEAKER_02

Alexander Gishant. Is that his name?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. So hold on a second.

SPEAKER_01

Golstadt or something?

SPEAKER_02

Right. It's hard to pronounce. Yeah. But I'll find it. I'll find all of them.

SPEAKER_01

I think, yeah, I trust you. I'll take your word on it. You met Jesus. I'll I trust you in everything you say, man.

SPEAKER_02

No, that's one thing I don't do, is I I don't lie. I never lie. There's no reason for it. It's like cash hop. Yeah, I mean, what what's the sense of lying?

SPEAKER_01

I mean So do you think the people who still work there can they make it right? Who who Jay would listen to?

SPEAKER_02

Will Jay listen to anyone? I don't honestly I don't think so because he thinks he knows everything. Have you ever met those guys that own the room? They think they know everything. And no matter what you try to say, they know they know everything.

SPEAKER_01

I have a message for Jay. I know you know it all. Please share your wisdom with us. It's an official invite to come to our podcast. Uh come to the studio. We'll give you your hour of fame, your minute of fame, as much time as you want. I'm giving the room an opportunity for everybody who exposes you of wrongdoings to come in, but I'm also giving you an opportunity to come to the studio. We're friendly here. I have a message for Jay. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02

In the beginning, one when I first started working for the company, I told Jay that I looked forward to building something beautiful with him. Okay? But there is a right way and a wrong way of doing business. Right? There is a right way and a wrong way of doing business. And I invite him to come to the studio and I'll come back.

SPEAKER_01

Awesome.

SPEAKER_02

And I have no problem with that. But I also believe that taking care of people the right way is the only way to do business. And if you're not willing to do that, stay home.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So Jay is mad at me for interviewing one of the sales reps who came in August and shared that he'd been trained to create a damage, fake hail damage. That's the story. So Bill came and said, Hey, I've been trained, I testified. Uh Jay plea guilty for doing that. And then we also seen a whole bunch of bad track record online, court, lawsuits, liens, and we put evolved construction on do not recommend list. I actually interviewed Dallas Julian asking all these.

SPEAKER_02

You did not.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I interviewed him. I did it back in September, October. I'm gonna find that and publish that. I actually forgot about it until this story until I started getting sued. Because I was investigating. I'm like, I just genuinely want to understand what's happening here.

SPEAKER_02

Is it as bad as you can investigate me all day long? I mean, I am I am a thousand percent disabled veteran. If they want to sue me for whatever they want, what are they gonna get? Nothing but a bad name. I'm a veteran that fought for the rights for everybody in this country. Okay? So I'm gonna protect the people in this country. You also did not do nothing wrong. No, I did not. I did nothing wrong. So you want to sue me, Jay? Go for it, bud.

SPEAKER_01

And and they want to sue a media company for interim sales reps. Good luck. Good luck with that too. Jay, you sound like a quality guy. I mean, look at this. Like, Jay, we are literally giving you spotlight. Come, share your story. You know, even even bad TR is PR, right? He would for some reason he does not like his own phone calls. And I'm talking about phone calls that he made, he asked for. He's like, I want to explain myself. I don't want like it was a damage control phone. And it was so bad for him that he does not want it live.

SPEAKER_02

And now Justin, Justin won't answer his phone calls. Like when I try to text him or call him, he won't take my phone calls. Justin? Yeah, so like when we have these Zoom call meetings, you got Justin, you got Al Nick, you got, you know, a lot of other people on there that I have no idea who they are. How confidential is the Zoom call? Or are they just trying to gather evidence for Jay? Realistically. And that's what I think is going on. Explain that. Well, you you have you have a law firm. Alan Mick has never been a salesman, number one, that worked for Evolve.

SPEAKER_01

But they're suing him. They're suing that law firm, too. Oh, they are suing that law firm? Yes. Okay. And all they do is So there there's there's a big dispute there. They can't speak, but Alan came to me sharing stories. You know what?

SPEAKER_02

I'm friends with Daryl Mick and Alan Mick, and I love that whole family. But I didn't understand that dynamic. Yeah, there's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_01

Evolve is against them. Evolve is suing them. That bridge is burned. There's like very bad blood there, too.

SPEAKER_02

So you know what? Alan Mick is renowned for doing the right thing. Yes. I'll tell you that from my experience with the entire Mick family. From Tammy Mick to Gerald Mick, Alan Mick, I I know Mo Aaron, all of them. You know what I mean? They're renowned for always trying to do the next right thing. They have a high sense of integrity.

SPEAKER_01

I would say so.

SPEAKER_02

Okay. And why would you sue somebody if they have a high sense of integrity? Unless you have something to hide.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah. So where do you think money is going? So money is not obviously in the jobs. Where's the money going? They're not paying sales reps. That's that's up to the FBI. They'll trace all that.

SPEAKER_02

They'll track all that. Follow the money. They won't be able to hide it. It doesn't care where they move it. I mean, between Marco Rubio, the FBI, and Marco Rubio. You think is it going up the chain of this command? It's going up the chain of command. You know what I mean? We're talking about billions of dollars stolen from you know middle class, the heartland of America.

SPEAKER_01

And not to mention insurance companies. Insurance companies like to investigate.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, disabled people. You know what I mean? And middle class Americans. You know, higher class Americans, commercial properties, and these guys are trying to sue them because they didn't do any work.

SPEAKER_01

You know, when I posted call with Jay on our YouTube channel, just a call, right? So he calls me, no edits, nothing. Full call, start to finish. Uh few industry leaders start calling me out. Oh, Dimitri, what are you doing? Why are you digging under this guy? Or Dmitri, you're so dirty for recording this phone call. You're framing him. I'm like, how am I framing him? He knew he asked for this call. So I have uh Sam Cook, public adjuster, my co-host. He asked Sam for my number to get to me. It's like Sam was a messenger. Sam told him, if you call Dmitri, it will be recorded. And they're debated at and whatever. And he gets my number, calls me, I publish the phone call. And out of everything Jay is doing, the industry does not see the bat. I'm the bat. You know, the whoever is uh putting spotlight on the bat is the bat, not correct, right.

SPEAKER_02

And that's what I started, you know, June 9th at 7 30 a.m. in the morning with a witness by by canceling 35 contracts, and then I posted it on their Google chatroom so every single salesman in the company could see it nationwide. So then they automatically deleted my access and deleted my accounts into everything so that that nobody could see it anymore.

SPEAKER_01

You know what I think? Uh Abby, let's send Sidney this uh this request, this task. I think that Jay Zabri with Evolve will make beautiful absent of American Greed. We just have to give them the story. Yeah, tell Sidney to pitch this story to American Greed. They love these stories. They they do, they do. And you know what?

SPEAKER_02

But there's there's there's a huge, there's a lot of lawsuits going on against State Farm, too, for not paying out on claims that are actually warranted in a lot of states. So it's not it's not just on one side of the aisle. Of course. Like one thing that I witnessed, you know, throughout my career is when Marty Hayden and LC Nuzback came together and they tried to create the 3C company, you know, is um contractors, carriers, you know what I mean? Um I forget what the other the C was, but it was contractors and carriers and something. Um working together, collaborating to find fair market value, do honest work, but get fair market value for doing honest work, you know what I mean? And we dealt with a lot of the special investigation units and things of that nature, and I met with a lot of those guys.

SPEAKER_01

Well, while I'm on this topic, Marty Haight, for the legacy of the because I've never met him, it was before my time in the industry. I have. Uh tell me about Marty. What's his legacy? How was he? I never got to work for what was his reputation in the house.

SPEAKER_02

I never got to work for Marty Haight, but everybody that worked for him loved him. Loved him. Marty Hayte was the guy that was the grandfather to this industry. That's what I heard. And he had relationships with all the manufacturers. Um Tina Hayde was his wife out of Walksache, Texas.

SPEAKER_01

Um, she's a wonderful lady. Um talked to Tina all the time. We became friends, talked to their daughters.

SPEAKER_02

Grace and Hannah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It's a great, they're a great family. And Dylan, Dylan's sick. You know, my prayers go out to to Dylan and the family. Um this is really sad. Um but uh yeah, Marty was the grandfather of the industry. Marty was the guy that even taught LC and gave him his first shot. Wow. And LC grew from that. You know what I mean? And then even though they parted ways and LC created Aston Contracting, LC and Marty still collaborated and created the 3C Corporation.

SPEAKER_01

What together? What LC is doing though? I have no idea.

SPEAKER_02

Retired? I'm sure he's retired. I he's a billionaire, he does whatever he wants. I I have no idea.

SPEAKER_01

Got it.

SPEAKER_02

Hopefully he's having fun raising his kids, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Probably. All right, brother. Any final message? Anything you want to send to Evolve people, to customers, to anyone? Who's your message to? And what would you like to say?

SPEAKER_02

It can be biblical. That's a dangerous question. Um anybody working for Evolve? Um try to find somebody else to work for. You know, on my my honest opinion, I'm sorry, but that's that's my honest opinion from experience, and that's that's a lot of experience coming at you. You know, I can't tell you how many roofs I got in every single year, you know, um, as a salesman. But to sell between three and five million dollars every summer, every six months, you know, mostly residential and dabble in commercial, but mostly residential, that's a lot of work. I guess.

SPEAKER_01

Well, my message to the homeowners, sales reps, ex-sales reps, if you have a story, if you want to share it, um reach out. We have a big, big file collected already. Uh, we also keep sending everything to FBI, to detectives, and a few other people. So if you need help, send us to us. I'll put all my information below. Thank you, Samam, so much for your courage and uh for sharing the story about after death experience. That was amazing.

SPEAKER_02

Well, it doesn't get more real than that.

SPEAKER_01

It does not. What did uh what was the message to you, I guess, at the end of that after death experience?

SPEAKER_02

He told me that he gave me broad shoulders for a reason, and he was sending me back to share his story. And the his story was about love and compassion. True love. I mean true unadulterated love. You know what I mean? And compassion, and that's how we're supposed to treat each other and to follow the Ten Commandments.

SPEAKER_01

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you, brother, for sharing. Yeah, you got it.